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Rudolf Carnap[edit]

Is anyone here familiar with Rudolf Carnap’s work? If so, what are your opinions of his work? I’m aware that this is a very broad question, but I believe that it is appropriate for the Saloon Bar as much of his work; in my opinion, is in the same spirit as RationalWiki. I have a keen interest In his work; particularly his post-syntax period, as a result I am curious to find out about your opinions on his work. Uriel Blackwood (talk) 17:56, 19 February 2020 (UTC)

Shitty online comics represent the limits of my knowledge on the subject ikanreed 🐐Bleat at me 20:11, 19 February 2020 (UTC)

Limits? What Limits? I never knew that Carnap was a hot-dog consoeur.Uriel Blackwood (talk) 22:38, 19 February 2020 (UTC)

Is culture a bad thing?[edit]

http://lfb.org/culture-not-friend-3-magic-life-lessons-terence-mckenna/ It’s mostly referring to the first point on this link but the rest do offer some food for thought. I’m not entirely sure how right his claim is, especially since hippie culture is essentially rooted in the values he is preaching. All I can say is that I don’t really know if culture is bad and point number 3 is......well the most dubious. I don’t really assign much stock in psychedelics apart from some studies that show they help with ptsd and depression. But I don’t buy into the altered consciousness stuff.Machina (talk) 00:09, 20 February 2020 (UTC)

That's a lot of unsubstantiated negative opinions about a very vague word which the author fails to define appropriately for the purposes of their article... I don't want to agree or disagree until I figure out what exactly is meant by all this bad writing I just read. And to answer the question in the title. Culture is not a bad thing in itself. There are bad cultures and there are wholesome cultures. It all depends. 82.36.198.177 (talk) 00:50, 20 February 2020 (UTC)

I think the link mentioned modern western culture. I haven’t read any of his books or seen much stuff by him. But he seemed to be a product of his time and experiences so it’s about what I expected from such an era.Machina (talk) 04:48, 20 February 2020 (UTC)

Looks to me like a sloppily-written article mostly about sloppily-worded quotes from a guy who really liked psychedelics. It's conceivable that there's some cohesive thought at the bottom of this, but the prospects look dim from a brief overview of the guy. Consider this quote about psychedelics from the article: These compounds, he says, “can be threatening to existing hierarchical structures.” And possibly for that reason, he says, “We ended up demonizing these compounds. Can you think of another area of science regarded as so dangerous and taboo that all research gets shut down for decades? It’s unprecedented in modern science." He apparently hasn't looked into the matter enough to encounter eugenics, which isn't exactly a secret. Shouldn't be surprising that his understanding of what culture is and how it works is loose at best. 192․168․1․42 (talk) 12:11, 20 February 2020 (UTC)
Yeah, Terence McKenna actually is enough of a woo-meister to merit an article here, to be honest... on this Wiki he gets a justified notation for his role in the 2012 Mayan-inspired end of times shit, but other aspects could be expanded. This whole culture article is basically an updated version of Timothy Leary's famous "turn on, tune in, drop out"Wikipedia's W.svg phrase from what I see, indicating a fear and paranoia of some "official culture" that he thinks exists and is nefarious, but doesn't really exist as a collective (Christ in these Internet days just count the number of Reddit groups alone) and isn't uniformly as nefarious as he thinks. And he's not smart enough to figure out how psychedelics really work, unable to separate the fine imagery, hallucinations, and "we are all one with the universe" feeling some get with them, from the dry mechanism of how they work (psychedelics fuck with neurotransmitters, man!). Everyone likes to think of themselves as a rebel, I guess. (I'm fine with the part of the message where one keeps an open mind about everything, though...) Soundwave106 (talk) 13:41, 20 February 2020 (UTC)

So this article starts with a quote. “Nature loves courage,” Terence McKenna once proclaimed. “You make the commitment and nature will respond to that commitment by removing impossible obstacles.”. If we start with such an obvious example of ill defined, magical thinking then I am disinclined to read the rest.Bob"Life is short and (insert adjective)" 15:05, 20 February 2020 (UTC)

If I had to guess it would be just any system of thought that tells you the way that things are and that this is X and Y and this is normal, etc. I'm just using that because later on he mentions how culture suppresses our full self expression. Granted it's very loose and the link does mention that it's in reference to modern western consumer culture, but it might be the more broad term. I'm still super doubtful about his claims on psychedelics. Some people on the forum I linked say their lives were better after the fact but that might be more to do with the chemical effects of the drugs rather than any alleged insights. Like anti depressants.Machina (talk) 05:38, 21 February 2020 (UTC)

The Dems are done. Get ready for four more years[edit]

I'm not even sure I'll vote in the primaries. It's not like any of these people can get to 270 anyways, so there's hardly any point. The good guys lost this one. When Trump wins in November, remember I said it would happen. I'm gonna vote blue in the general, but it'll hardly make a difference. I bet the Dems lose the House too. Pizza SLICE.gifChef Moosolini’s Ristorante ItalianoMake a Reservation 13:40, 20 February 2020 (UTC)

That's seriously dumb. There hasn't been a national head-to-head poll yet where Bernie hasn't significantly outperformed Trump. ikanreed 🐐Bleat at me 14:06, 20 February 2020 (UTC)
Bernie would lose too. The moderates would be alienated by him, and many of the people who claim to support him probably won't vote. The GOP is seeing record turnouts for their empty primary contest, and the Democrats are struggling to hit 2016 numbers. Plus Trump will launch all kinds of attack ads calling him everything short of Stalin. The GOP will be energized to vote against any Democrat, and the Democrats won't be able to unite behind literally any of these candidates. The election is lost. Prepare for what comes next. Pizza SLICE.gifChef Moosolini’s Ristorante ItalianoMake a Reservation 14:21, 20 February 2020 (UTC)
All indications I see is that turnout is expected to be high for both the urban blues and the token Republican primary. 2018 was also a high turnout year on both sides and ended up being a "blue wave". The only negative indicator I've seen so far is the Democratic Iowa caucuses, and caucuses in my opinion are too anachronistic in this fast-moving Internet age to mean too much. Trump is at a high water mark in polling... which is 51% disapproval, still. Because people are complicated, how people vote after their primary choice is defeated is a complicated equation. The only guarantee IMHO is the no-shit-Sherlock prediction that this will be a bitterly divisive campaign, frankly. Soundwave106 (talk) 15:19, 20 February 2020 (UTC)
Expect someone else to be put into the "Leftists who turned right with age" category. When someone claims that the election is essentially lost, they begin to move away from their preferred party, and become a neo/paleoconservative. It's all too familiar to me.Jeh2ow Damn son! 14:37, 20 February 2020 (UTC)
You really like to randomly accuse me of being a conservative, huh? Pizza SLICE.gifChef Moosolini’s Ristorante ItalianoMake a Reservation 14:42, 20 February 2020 (UTC)
@DuceMoosolini I'm not saying that you will end up conservative, it's just a prediction.Jeh2ow Damn son! 15:45, 20 February 2020 (UTC)
Look, doing what you want would cause the democratic party to lose, just like it did in 2016. There's no guarantees, but having two right wing parties just gives credence to the one that doesn't pretend it's good. I know you wanted Warren to win, but she gave away all chance of that happening when she sold out progressive policies to "move to the center" around December. That just positions you as too radical to the centrists and too spineless for people who actually want anything. That's been the failing strategy of the party for decades now, and it consistently looses, unless you can find an ultra-charismatic figure like Obama to really sell it. ikanreed 🐐Bleat at me 14:55, 20 February 2020 (UTC)
If you don't vote for the Dem opponent of Trump, whoever that is, then you support Trump.Aloysius the Gaul 19:49, 20 February 2020 (UTC)
With the caveat that if you vote for bloomberg, you vote for trump, but worse. There are also plenty of other primary outcomes where voting third party is preferable and people whining "But you're effectively voting for trump" did it to themselves, such as if a brokered convention goes against the popular vote. ikanreed 🐐Bleat at me 20:10, 20 February 2020 (UTC)
Ehhh, Bloomberg is making me feel super uncomfortable. This guy thinks he can just buy his way to election, but he comes off as an out of touch monster that would benefit styming policy. I trust him even less than Biden and I dislike Biden. --It's-a me, Lgm sigpic.png LeftyGreenMario!(Mod) 20:11, 20 February 2020 (UTC)
Bloomberg was born working class, so that makes him a class traitor as well as an oligarch. Oxyaena Harass 20:30, 20 February 2020 (UTC)
All hail! Marxist-Lennonist discusssion group, local 202. Bongolian (talk) 20:42, 20 February 2020 (UTC)
You ought to get banned for having an image that misuses cyrillic. --It's-a me, Lgm sigpic.png LeftyGreenMario!(Mod) 21:03, 20 February 2020 (UTC)
Dll Ndil!
I don't understand this mentality. People want change, but the guy capable of change is "unelectable", so let's put someone who isn't going to change anything on the ballot. I fail to see how this will win you any votes. On the other side Trump won by not caring about moderates at all and going all in promising the changes they wanted. Forget the moderates, they won't vote anyway, they, by definition, are happy with the status quo. 2804:431:C7F3:8416:B5B4:2126:E539:FFFC (talk) 20:39, 20 February 2020 (UTC)
From my position looking at the polls, pretty much *all* the candidates poll better than Trump. (As in, roughly speaking, Biden *and* Sanders are +5 over Trump at the moment.) I don't buy the "electable" argument personally. I'm also kind of eh on who ends up winning unless someone is stupid enough to try to split the Democrat "big tent" with a third party run. Soundwave106 (talk) 21:58, 20 February 2020 (UTC)
Not to be rude, but why should we give a fuck about the "moderates" (Moderate of what? Whether or not to care for their citizens? What an inane position.)? Seriously. These are the people that voted "yes" to the PATRIOT act, "yes" to torture, "yes" to Iraq, "yes" to tax cuts for the wealthy, "yes" to insane amounts of deregulation. These are the people who don't give a fuck about us. Why should we give a fuck about them? ☭Comrade GC☭Ministry of Praise 20:47, 20 February 2020 (UTC)
Because moderates(or what pass for moderates in the USA) make up a depressingly large voting bloc and in the current circumstances the democrats need all the turnout they can possibly get. Considering that progressives preform best amidst voter demographics that are actively suppressed during elections alienating moderates, while morally praiseworthy, is tactically suicidal. The best hope is that four more years of Trump is so scary that it can unite all democrats behind whoever the eventual nominee is regardless of their own weaknesses. Politics in a representative democracy is not about who is morally right, or even who is empirically right, but who can win. Flandres (talk) 21:09, 20 February 2020 (UTC)
The larger problem I see is that by the standards of the rest of the civilized world, nothing that, say, Sanders or Warren have proposed is particularly extreme or even all that 'socialist'. That said, Bloomberg is categorically unacceptable to me as a candidate. He is the soda-pop tax guy. He thinks legalizing marijuana is a 'terrible mistake'. Then there's the stop and frisk business. If the Democrats offer a candidate with this kind of hostility to personal and civil freedoms, I won't be able to hold my nose tight enough. Instead, I will watch the polls, and if it seems that the Republicans will carry Indiana like they always do, I will cheerfully throw away my vote on a Green or Libertarian. Smerdis of Tlön, wekʷōm teḱs. 23:28, 20 February 2020 (UTC)
I mean,arguably there are "third world" countries like Cuba that have a better healthcare system than the US... ☭Comrade GC☭Ministry of Praise 04:44, 21 February 2020 (UTC)


I believe that prioritizing "electability" over supporting what you believe in is like the old saying goes, "If you stand for nothing, you'll fall for anything." Colossal Squid (talk) 01:39, 21 February 2020 (UTC)
@Colossal Squid Ah electability... I guess his repeated re-elections as senator of Vermont don't make him "electable", or the fact that he came in second in 2016... I mean, gosh, it's almost as if there's lots of people that want to elect him for some weird reason... ☭Comrade GC☭Ministry of Praise 04:42, 21 February 2020 (UTC)
Depends how you want to frame "lots of people", I suppose. The US has nearly thirty cities with more people in them than Vermont, so you probably shouldn't get too excited about a proven track record of electoral success with a notably unrepresentative ~0.2% of the US population.
Finishing a well-beaten second in a primary that was a two horse race from Iowa onwards doesn't make much of campaign ad, either. Helena Bonham Carter (talk) 15:14, 21 February 2020 (UTC)
"And that's why I think we should ignore the popular vote and let super-delegates from even less representative states decide who to run" ikanreed 🐐Bleat at me 15:48, 21 February 2020 (UTC)
It's early days, and it's mainly the fractured field that's making Bernie look competitive at the moment. I'm assuming there'll be some consolidation of the "moderate" candidates, hopefully sooner rather than later, and that should be enough to stop him securing an outright majority, maybe even a plurality, in the first round of voting. After that, I would indeed be more than happy to see the DNC super-delegate the fuck out of him at the convention if necessary. Helena Bonham Carter (talk) 21:30, 21 February 2020 (UTC)
Some, but according to polls Bernie is no. 2 pick for a majority of biden and warren supporters and a great many of klobb/butt supporters. The only people who actively seek moderate candidates as some kind of goal are pundits and insane people. ikanreed 🐐Bleat at me 21:43, 21 February 2020 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────Where are you getting your data? I haven't been able to find much recent polling that records second choice by first:

I don't see anything remarkable in Bernie's second choice support, and if you set the YouGov graph widget to plot second choice by first, it appears "not sure" is the dominant answer almost across the board. Helena Bonham Carter (talk) 20:48, 22 February 2020 (UTC)

You're still confident there'll be a meaningful election? I think it's about even odds right now Barr will just have the Democratic nominee arrested on some vaguely plausible-sounding charge. Or Trump will just refuse to recognize the results if he loses, claiming the Democrats rigged the vote with "illegals". Him saying he would have won the 2016 popular vote if not for fraud was laying the groundwork for that. In either case the "establishment" will wring their hands and say it's "unprecedented" and otherwise do nothing. Or, in case you needed more comfort, there's a decent chance of an Electoral College tie, in which case, long story short, Trump gets re-elected. Or faithless electors could flip the election for Trump if the EC vote is close, which it probably will be. Our antiquated, creaky Constitution isn't going to hold up much longer. --47.146.63.87 (talk) 10:02, 22 February 2020 (UTC)

El Al[edit]

Logo of El Al Israel Airlines.svg

This is Israel's flag carrier airline, and one of the most secure airlines out there. Lots of conspiracies about them, so let's make a page about them and some El Al crashes.Jeh2ow Damn son! 15:38, 20 February 2020 (UTC)

Cursed name and airline. Oxyaena Harass 20:30, 20 February 2020 (UTC)
WTF? Bongolian (talk) 20:46, 20 February 2020 (UTC)
One word: "Israel." Oxyaena Harass 20:59, 20 February 2020 (UTC)
@Bongolian Don't piss her off, or her "Centrist sense" will tingle. But seriously, this is RationalWiki worthy. After all, some of El Al's flights have been hijacked, while others crashed for no apparent reason. Once again, there are a lot of conspiracy theories about El Al and the hijackings, including those made by those dumb fucks.Jeh2ow Damn son! 21:16, 20 February 2020 (UTC)
My objection was not to creating a page on El Al. It was to calling it a "Cursed name and airline.", particularly without further explanation. Bongolian (talk) 21:25, 20 February 2020 (UTC)
Airline of an active apartheid state. Oxyaena Harass 22:44, 20 February 2020 (UTC)
Once again, Oxyaena has some sort of "Centrist sense". Anything that appears just ever so slightly right wing, she's gonna rant. It's her special superpower.Jeh2ow Damn son! 23:20, 20 February 2020 (UTC)
Funny. Oxyaena Harass 01:08, 21 February 2020 (UTC)
So now even an airline connected to a country with politics you don't agree with is cursed trash? I mean...is extending your hatred towards a transportation company going to achieve anything? ShabiDOO 23:47, 20 February 2020 (UTC)
I don't think opposing apartheid is a matter of mere "disagreement." Oxyaena Harass 01:06, 21 February 2020 (UTC)
You can persist with this, but it really would be so much quicker just to cut straight to the "Yeah. It's just an airline. Got a bit carried away again." Helena Bonham Carter (talk) 01:53, 21 February 2020 (UTC)
Surely a more pressing subject would be Soda Stream, the cursed Israeli soft drinks device manufacturer. I heard all kinds of crazy stories about them when I was a kid. And if you're still short of material, they've been in trouble from BDS-ers. --Annanoon (talk) 08:40, 21 February 2020 (UTC)
SodaStream is different, as they had one of their factories in an illegal settlement in the West Bank before they moved to mainland Israel. Of course, I just wanted to know if any of you would be interested in starting a draft about the airline, and the numerous conspiracies about it. Or, I could just delete this talk. Your choice.Jeh2ow Damn son! 14:18, 21 February 2020 (UTC)

Bloomberg[edit]

Bloomberg was born working class, he made sixty billion dollars off the back of his workers and via other various ethically dubious means and has become a fucking oligarch. No one can get sixty billion dollars and still be a moral person, that's more than the GDP of entire countries for Christ's sake. Excuse me for pointing out that fact! Fucking liberals. I mean, wealth hoarding should be a crime, Bloomberg is even worse than Trump. He has the same, er, "moral flexibility" as Trump but unlike Trump he can actually think, if Bloomberg wins office we'll get something not much better than we have now, a formalized corporate oligarchy as opposed to the ad hoc one we have right now, or even a full on fascist state. Bloomberg already has a similar record to Trump, including a disregard for civil rights, doing nothing to combat income inequality (and actually making it worse), and scapegoating minorities. Oxyaena Harass 01:14, 21 February 2020 (UTC)

Oops, he was born to affluent parents. Wikipedia got it wrong again. Never mind folks, typical bougie here. Move along. Oxyaena Harass 01:23, 21 February 2020 (UTC)
I don't know anyone here that would disagree with you. The Overton window must be really out of calibration in the US for a former Republican billionaire to just throw a bunch of money to convince everyone he'd be a good Democratic candidate. Personally, I find it awkward that he has his own media outlet. Conflict of interest, much? Colossal Squid (talk) 01:34, 21 February 2020 (UTC)
Honestly, though, from a pure numbers standpoint, Bernie Sanders has a huge lead right now, so I'm not worried about Bloomberg yet apart from the inherent skeeviness of the way he entered the race. We've all said similar things about Biden being a terrible candidate while he was still leading in the polls, and look at him now. Colossal Squid (talk) 01:37, 21 February 2020 (UTC)
Well, Bloomberg is a social conservative billionaire but he also wants to re enter the Paris agreement and is okay with gun control so he is part of the globalist satanist cabal to the republicans. The democrats are really just the party of "Not republicans" rather than having their own identity so it is easy to see Bernie Sanders and Micheal Bloomberg in the same party even though they are polar opposite. Also, "Bernie is in the lead" depends on "other moderates do not drop out and keep splitting the vote" so be careful about calling the primary just yet.Flandres (talk) 01:50, 21 February 2020 (UTC)
"His father – a bookkeeper at a local dairy who never earned more than $6,000 a year in his life – sat down and wrote out a $25 or $50 check to the NAACP."[1] I guess that makes me a class traitor myself. One of my ancestors was a village cobbler, but I've been a petit bourgeoisie for my entire life. Bongolian (talk) 08:15, 21 February 2020 (UTC)
Cool, you're nitpicking, you're ignoring the broader picture here. Bloomberg's an oligarch, a member of the ruling class, it is absolutely imperative we stop him. Oxyaena Harass 14:05, 21 February 2020 (UTC)
You're not convincing me at all by just saying he's a member of the ruling class. I don't like billionaires, I don't like corporate CEOs. I think they're all grossly overpaid. I think they have not earned their wealth honestly — by white-collar crime, failing upward, or inheritance. That said, there are things about all the candidates that I don't like — that will always be true. The real issue as far as I'm concerned is beating Trump. Bernie, by the way, will have a very difficult time winning Florida given the number of old-guard anti-communist Cubans still living there. In Bloomberg's defense (and I don't really have a favorite candidate in the primaries right now): 1) He has donated $5.5 million to keep the US paid up for the Paris Agreement.[2] 2) He's funding down-ballot races for Democrats. 3) It is clear that he's going to financially support whoever the Democratic candidate is (unlike some other candidate we might know, perhaps).

Bongolian (talk) 18:57, 21 February 2020 (UTC)

There's more to this election than beating Trump. Bloomberg's no better than Trump, they're functionally the same. Oxyaena Harass 20:16, 21 February 2020 (UTC)
I'm not sure why people left of centre aren't celebrating Bloombergs run. It's a rare blessing. I imagine establishment types were twizzling their moustaches when Warren started splitting the votes, it looking like it nailed down the victory for Biden. Now you have Bloomberg, Biden and Buttigieg. Bloomberg won't leave the race, so will adsorb the votes of the "I vote for who ever the media tells me to" crowd, but he's still such a god damn terrible candidate. Watching the people hand it to him on stage is the debate equivalent of DBZ when the overpowered character ragdolls the opponent for a while. The establishment won't reject Biden since they've already invested too much in this particular lame donkey and Buttigieg, while he could be a good candidate for them, I'm not sure if the mainstream considers him electable enough, but if he was to leave the race it's uncertain it would be to the advantage of. I'm always a bit frustrated in the pattern where the corrupt fuckers fight at the start, but eventually establish a common front so they can fuck over everyone else, while the opposition gives lip service to unity then at 5 minutes to midnight has a major fallout over which style of hat is most socialist. Am I wrong in saying that it's nice to see the establishments greed fail to consolidate for once? /endrant McUrist (talk) 08:59, 21 February 2020 (UTC)
Bloomberg is the one person in the Democratic race that is categorically unacceptable to me. His soda pop tax, which was apparently struck down for illegality, is to me a symptom of a vicious and authoritarian mindset. He is apparently opposed to legalizing cannabis and endorsed New York's draconian drug laws. Then of course there's stop and frisk. He's basically the Tipper Gore of public-healthism. Smerdis of Tlön, wekʷōm teḱs. 16:04, 21 February 2020 (UTC)
Yes, the tax is the most obvious sign of authoritarianism, not the completely arbitrary random police stops of practically every non-white person in the city in any given year. It's the tax that's the giveaway. ikanreed 🐐Bleat at me 16:26, 21 February 2020 (UTC)
Yes indeed a tax to motivate people to be less sugarmonkeys and cut down on sugar related diseases etc. and raise some money to cover the huge costs of treating such diseases is symptomatic of absolute monstrous tyrrany. It's okay that the government can spy on every email you send all the time and no one makes the slightest stink about it anymore but the diabetes water tax...those few pennies truly attack freedom and America.. ShabiDOO 17:09, 21 February 2020 (UTC)
I read the entire comment, and I'm pretty sure he mentioned more than the soda tax... The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 17:23, 21 February 2020 (UTC)
Be that as it may, running a city as an actual police state was not in that post. If it were a one-off thing I'd take it as a quirky observation, but Smerdis has this weird problem where he understands that bad things are bad, but seems pretty much totally incapable of prioritizing serious injustice over questions of tone and tenor. ikanreed 🐐Bleat at me 17:31, 21 February 2020 (UTC)
The soda tax is one of those horrible ideas that the ninnies and handwringers will be all over like white on rice. It needs to be shouted down before it takes off. Lifestylism, the pernicious idea that the ailments of old age are All Your Fault for Not Living Right, is yet another of those things that the clerisy uses to look down on and wrongfoot the poor and what's left of the laboring class. So yes, fighting it is important. Smerdis of Tlön, wekʷōm teḱs. 18:09, 21 February 2020 (UTC)
See what I mean? ikanreed 🐐Bleat at me 19:11, 21 February 2020 (UTC)
There should be an added sugar tax, but lol we won't have that anytime soon. Currently sugar in the U.S. is artificially cheap because Congress subsidizes corn (and therefore corn syrup) to buy votes in "farm states". Type 2 diabetes is increasingly an "ailment of young age", with U.S. rates going up among younger age groups. --47.146.63.87 (talk) 00:39, 22 February 2020 (UTC)
Of course no government has the right to try to moderate people poisoning their bodies (especially children exposed to relentless marketing) nor recoup some of the government cost of treating their expensive diabetes. That is just tyrranical authoritarianism. It is utter mayhem madness. Next thing you know they'll start taxing cigarettes or alcohol or gasoline. They'll get so out of hand before you know it they'll have a general sales tax. We have the right to toxify our bodies without the 2 cents guilt trip. That's what freedom is all about. ShabiDOO 22:55, 21 February 2020 (UTC)
If you ever hope to have tax funded medical care in this country, it is necessary first to put down these belief systems that claim that illness is caused by not living right. It won't work any other way. When you start blaming the ill and elderly for their own conditions, absolutely nothing will be nobody's business but your own. Smerdis of Tlön, wekʷōm teḱs. 05:04, 22 February 2020 (UTC)
No...you're so hyped up on the anti-"nanny" state and rabid-small-tax-hysteria that you've done a cosmic-slippery slope from a few cents pop-tax to Soviet tyrrany. Perhaps...Smerdis you've slightly exaggerated that slippery slope from what's actually a tiny stair case of fairly uncontroversial government policy into a razor edge cliff of silliness? I live in an EU country that has things like sugar related taxes and they are so completely uncontroversial and no the government doesn't bud their nose into our lives. In fact the surveillance-state-system is a lot less extreme than in the U.S. It's petty money. And if it helps fund a program to get kids to stop looking at diabetes water as the default go-to drink with their lunch I really don't mind. Nor do I mind sugar addicts contributing a few cents more towards their health care treatment. Remember...we are talking about pennies here. Sometimes these taxes are effective in moderating hyper-consumtion or activities of toxic stuff, sometimes not. But even in those few cases where it doesn't moderate things a litte...it does add some extra funds the government always needs for the fallout. You still have the freedom to buy the pop. You still have the freedom to drink 5 litres of sugar a day if you like. If you really want to fight for consumption freedom in America...then try getting the government to lower the drinking age to 18 which would actually give millions of Americans the right to choose to drink as an adult. That's the difference between "freedom to choose" and "a few cents petty tax". 18, 19 and 20 year olds don't have the first right and yet the rabid rage is directed at a question of a few pennies. ShabiDOO 09:31, 22 February 2020 (UTC)
I always hoped that the picture of american political attitudes was just a bad stereotype. Then I see people calling a sugar tax fascism, while sleeping through military invasions, coups, corporate lobbying etc. Something is wrong with this overton window. It's perfectly reasonable to avoid offloading the tax burden for peoples terrible decision making. Nudge taxes aren't going to kill anyone either. McUrist (talk) 13:18, 22 February 2020 (UTC)
We agree, at least, on drinking ages, which are laws no decent person would enforce. If we must have them, set them to two years before you can get a permit to drive a car. But in the USA, nobody ever went broke by proposing new abstinence based pseudovirtues. We have a bad history of crap like prohibitionism and the war on drugs. Need to nip that sort of thing in the bud before it becomes a major problem. Stopping people from moralizing about other people's food preferences is actually quite important given our national tendency to go nuts with that sort of thing. Smerdis of Tlön, wekʷōm teḱs. 13:27, 22 February 2020 (UTC)
So... you think alcohol prohibition and a 2 cent tax on a can of coke are the same thing? That explains all the protection rackets from the sugar mafia. The problem with this stance, as with others where the US differs vastly (guns jump to mind), is that it doesn't even try to tackle the contrary evidence from around the world. Just keeps making the same slippery slope argument about a vague notion of liberty. McUrist (talk) 13:42, 22 February 2020 (UTC)
And what 'evidence' can that be? Not interested in an argument about whether drinking sugar or corn syrup is Bad For You. My point is that even if that's true it's still none of the government's business whether you choose to do t or not, or to try to dissuade people from doing it by artificially inflating prices. It's another way for the haute-bourgeoisie to express their contempt for the working classes, like so much else that flies the flag of 'health' in media and cultire. Anti-smoking has been a civil rights emergency for years. Good governments do not portray an underclass of their citizens as lepers whose contagin endangers you if you so much as smell one. It even revived segregation. I will do whatever I can to prevent similar belief systems from taking root. Smerdis of Tlön, wekʷōm teḱs. 16:58, 22 February 2020 (UTC)
Wait, anti-smoking is a what now?Pizza SLICE.gifChef Moosolini’s Ristorante ItalianoMake a Reservation 17:19, 22 February 2020 (UTC)
The good thing about Bloomberg entering the race is that he likely has no chance of winning the nomination on the ballot and helps split the “status quo” vote (though he simply seems to be hoovering up defectors from the other “status quo” candidates). The bad thing is that he is very well placed to get the nomination at a brokered convention, if Sanders fails to win a majority. While I’m not convinced that such a scenario is inevitable, if Sanders (as seems possible) wins a plurality, but not a majority, neither would I rule it out; despite the risk that such a move would seriously fracture the Democratic Party. ScepticWombat (talk) 17:53, 22 February 2020 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── The Democrats need someone who will generate interest and excitement. Bloomberg is not that person, for many reasons: and for me the soda tax is one of them. It is one of many things that show him to be elitist, out of touch, somewhat contemptuous of the working classes, thinking he knows what's best for everyone. Hillary Clinton also had this problem. Back in the 1990s she was endorsing abstinence based sex education, handwringing about how marijuana might lead to sex, as well as more substantive failings like her support for three strikes laws. Stuff like this tends to suck the air out of the room. An I will admit that I did not vote for Al Gore, and a major reason was that I could not cast a vote that would put Tipper Gore in the White House. If the divorce is final now, and he picked someone other than Lieberman to run with, I'd be happier to see him in the race than I am Bloomberg. Smerdis of Tlön, wekʷōm teḱs. 01:37, 23 February 2020 (UTC)

Florida Man Horoscope[edit]

I wanna get this game started here, all you gotta do is Google "Florida man" with your birthday minus the year and post the results here. Mine is Neighbors complain about Florida man doing yardwork naked RockfordRoe (talk) 18:59, 21 February 2020 (UTC)

This has Category:Generators potential for Funspace. Bongolian (talk) 20:12, 21 February 2020 (UTC)
Only one I got was from Fox News, don't blame me. Fugitive Florida man on bike hoped 'hideous' blonde wig disguise would help him evade deputies, police say Pizza SLICE.gifChef Moosolini’s Ristorante ItalianoMake a Reservation 23:10, 21 February 2020 (UTC)
Well, it seems that I drew this callout to classic cartoon shows. Hunh. I'm not that old... Kencolt (talk) 05:05, 22 February 2020 (UTC)

Can we have original thoughts?[edit]

http://youtu.be/XU7au8Af7Ys

The video sparked my interest despite the fact that I don’t really have much love for the guy. I read his book but found it wanting since much of the concepts were either ripped from Buddhism or just completely crackers. But the idea of original thoughts was interesting. I mean much of what I know today I learned from other people who came before me. But the what about those people?Machina (talk) 00:04, 22 February 2020 (UTC)

What is an original thought? Is it a thought in a proverbial vacuum with no impulses to guide it, or just a thought no one has ever had before? If it is a thought no one has had before, then absolutely. Advancing technology is proof of this. No one 5 thousand years ago was contemplating trying to use lasers to fuse Hydrogen atoms into Boron atoms to create a sustainable fusion reaction. If it is a thought on a proverbial vacuum, then we dont know. At a basic level we have chemically induced emotions that prompt thoughts, a brain without that has never been observed. MirrorIrorriM (talk) 00:41, 22 February 2020 (UTC)
The answer is yes, but right now I'm not having an original thought. I'm having a thought I've had many times before. Specifically the thought is "Jesus Christ, Machina, that's more meaningless deepity". ikanreed 🐐Bleat at me 03:59, 22 February 2020 (UTC)
No, because you're all just characters in my dream, and when I awaken you'll cease to exist. --47.146.63.87 (talk) 07:45, 22 February 2020 (UTC)

I don’t think the video has anything to do with solipsism.Machina (talk) 17:45, 22 February 2020 (UTC)

Bernie and Russia[edit]

Bernie was briefed a month ago by the State Department that his campaign was being supported by Russia. This is quite bad for several reasons.

  1. Bernie did not make this information public, but instead sat on it for a month.
  2. The information only came out because of a Congressional briefing with senior intelligence officials that occurred last week.[3]
  3. This is the second presidential election in which Bernie was supported by Russia. We have the Mueller Report to thank for telling us that Bernie was supported by Russia in 2016.
  4. Since it is also known that Russia has supported Trump in 2016 and in the current election, it puts Bernie in the same plane as Trump.

Two possible non-mutually exclusive reasons for Putin's support of Bernie are:

  1. Bernie is an agent of chaos within the Democratic Party. Chaos will weaken the nominee (e.g. a brokered convention) if it's not Bernie.
  2. Bernie would likely lose to Trump, who is their actual favored candidate (favored primarily because he is corrupt and mobbed-up just like Putin's inner circle).

At this point, I see the path to defeating Trump as defeating Bernie first. Bongolian (talk) 01:14, 22 February 2020 (UTC)

Isn't the easiest way to lose to Trump for the dems to push yet another uninspiring establishment candidate during the primary? 82.36.198.177 (talk) 15:46, 22 February 2020 (UTC)
So... You fully support full Oligarchy so long as its AMERICAN Oligarchy? Revolverman (talk) 02:35, 22 February 2020 (UTC)
you are forgetting a more obvious reason for supposed support - sowing dissent. they don't need much to disrupt the dems it seems. AMassiveGay (talk) 01:59, 22 February 2020 (UTC)
The Russians are really good at mercilessly probing the sensitive nerve endings of the American public. Taking advantage of our open society, they appear to have a hand in a lot of political movements including environmental and racial ones. Meanwhile, Putin has more or less got a lock down on the media and political scene in Russia in a way that prevents any meaningful internal or external challenge. To me it seems obvious that they want the most isolationist American president they can get. Trump doesn't care what happens outside America's borders, he barely cares what goes on in them. Indeed, like a lot of American conservatives he seems to be surprisingly sympathetic to Putin. I've never quit figured that out. Sanders has always been a "skeptic" of America's role in the world and has at times been overly sympathetic to hostile regimes and dictatorships. Either one would be a good opportunity for Russia to annex or de facto annex another big chunk of some former Soviet Republic, Crimea style. Neo Stalinist (talk) 02:21, 22 February 2020 (UTC)
There is another ostensible reason for Putin to support Sanders. Trump is a snake and Putin knows, whatever leverage Putin might have on Trump, he cannot trust Trump to support Russian aggression on the scale Putin has in mind. And I believe Putin is spoiling for a fight to get the Soviet empire back. Say if Putin were to invade a Nato member in eastern Europe, I don't think Trump could restrain the response of the European members and the US could be dragged into the conflict. I advise all our socialist friends to consider that a big increase in government social programs means a big decrease in defense spending. A similar decrease would be unlikely under Trump. He could not possibly run on that policy agenda. Were I Putin, I would support the candidate most likely to reduce the size of the American military. Those would be Warren and Sanders with Sanders a clear favorite. Ariel31459 (talk) 04:19, 22 February 2020 (UTC)
Oh no, how will we win any wars with a slightly less-bloated military? Invading the Baltics would be stupid because they're tiny NATO members with strong anti-Russian sentiment. Insurgency plus possible world war is only something a megalomaniac would go for, and Putin isn't one. Instead you undermine them with manipulation, as with the U.S. and other countries. --47.146.63.87 (talk) 04:33, 22 February 2020 (UTC)
Why are you surprised U.S. conservatives like Putin? They want the U.S. to be like Putin's Russia. Russia isn't Communist anymore. --47.146.63.87 (talk) 04:33, 22 February 2020 (UTC)
Eastern NATO would be a tough but to crack even without US involvement. Poland and the Baltic states have been obsessively preparing for this shit for years. Pizza SLICE.gifChef Moosolini’s Ristorante ItalianoMake a Reservation 04:36, 22 February 2020 (UTC)
Psst, I think you wanted to put this above my later comment. See wp:Wikipedia:Indentation. --47.146.63.87 (talk) 07:41, 22 February 2020 (UTC)
I can only assume Trump, given his well-known antipathy to "leakers", will be swiftly condemning this leak and vowing to find out who's responsible. After all, he just stated he's going to stop Bolton from publishing his book because he says it contains classified information. Nunes went to tell Trump about the briefing regarding Russian 2020 election interference, so I presume he's aware of it. Now on a non-sarcastic note, I've seen people saying all candidates received this information, and they would have broken the law by disclosing this publicly, as it's classified information. I have no idea if this is true. Would be glad if someone felt like looking into that. You might argue Sanders should have done it anyway; that's a separate matter. --47.146.63.87 (talk) 07:41, 22 February 2020 (UTC)
It’s obvious that sowing distrust and discord within the US in general and towards its political system in particular is an obvious motivation for the Russians to ratfuck with Sanders by some form of “stealth support”.
Unlike Trump, however, there is nothing that suggests that Sanders has any connections to Russia or that a Sanders presidency would be more beneficial to Russian interests than the chaotic freak show that is the current and likely future Trump White House.
Also, the idea that a Sanders presidency would result in anything more than a less ludicrous increase in military expenditure (and a stronger focus on curbing waste in the military budget) is the kind of wishful thinking that I don’t really see Putin subscribing to.
Not only are drastic military cuts unlikely to make it through Congress within the timeframe of a Sanders presidency (though if he manages to successfully launch a long term movement that can pressure Congress critters, this might be different later on), but cuts big enough to significantly impact US military capabilities vis-a-vis Russia are simply implausible, given that current US military spending is 684.6 billion dollars versus Russia’s 61.6 billion, or literally 10:1. ScepticWombat (talk) 17:39, 22 February 2020 (UTC)
Ah, so that's the reason you got so pissy with me! You're okay with having another Trump-like oligarch in the White House at the expense of real, meaningful change for the betterment of humanity, @Bongolian! You should've told us! Really, you wanna defeat Trump? Don't nominate a candidate with policies that lead directly to Trump in the first place (*cough* neoliberalism *cough*). Bloomberg and all the other centrists are not what America needs, and they're not what the American people want. You've let your hate of Trump cloud the issues here, there're far more important things at stake here than just "defeating Trump." Bernie's the only one with policies that actually benefit the American worker without compromising integrity for the favor of the moneyed classes. Insert typical libby paranoia about Russia and insults about "muh socialism" here. Fucking privileged brats. Oxyaena Harass 19:37, 22 February 2020 (UTC)
Hate to be a downer, but how much meaningful change is Sanders actually going to accomplish? Congress will be centrist democrat at best, the supreme court is far right, and considering his age he has one term to deal with all of this and furthermore the current system is so dysfunctional as to be beyond saving. This situation does not fit the profile of a grand era of radical reform like the New Deal(the Democratic super majority is a noticeably absent). The Sanders administration will probably just be four more years of Obama-esque dithering, so I don't see why you are so optimistic about it(especially as someone who wants to end capitalism; Sanders will at best just save it like FDR did)-Flandres (talk) 20:01, 22 February 2020 (UTC)
Meaningful change on the scale of, for comparison, civil rights movements of the past, comes from the bottom up, not top down. If Sanders is able to lead people in putting pressure, mainly electoral pressure as I understand his interviews, on local politicians, and at the same time grow a movement that goes beyond his own time in office, it may result in meaningful change eventually. Case in point, democratic positions on various issues were shifted left towards Sanders since 2016, and what he did then may have something to do with it. Why not see how much more he can do once in office? 82.36.198.177 (talk) 20:21, 22 February 2020 (UTC)
They have shifted towards the left because they want to drive up turnout in 2020, because they want to unseat Trump. The same centrist hacks still dominate the party, and without the threat of Trump to unite them they will knife Sanders in the back because he has served his purpose-they will accept no long term threat to the status quo they benefit from. Also, when you say meaningful change "eventually", look at the weather forecast, look at the world around you, look at a motherfucking actual prediction by a climatologist, WE DON'T HAVE TILL "EVENTUALLY." We have, like, a decade, and every month counts(so sanders has to be succeeded by a president just like him). What I suppose I should have clarified(sorry) is that Sanders cannot achieve radical change in a time frame that matters.Flandres (talk) 20:35, 22 February 2020 (UTC)
And so what do you propose is the thing people should place their hopes on? Or are we to give in to despair instead? 82.36.198.177 (talk) 20:55, 22 February 2020 (UTC)
Your problem, not to mention the problem that most humans have in times like these, is that you are so naive and optimistic as to believe there necessarily must be a solution at all. You are trying to undo the legacy of decades, arguably centuries, of mismanagement. You are attempting to fight against implacable forces of entropy and history. This is not the sort of story that has a happy ending. The good guys do not "have" to win. There is not always a achievable exit to massive systemic problems; just ask the Romans or the Soviets or the Incas. The "good guys" won't lose if Trump gets re-elected now, for you have already lost.Flandres (talk) 21:06, 22 February 2020 (UTC)
Let's imagine for a moment that I am not a dreamer and do not strive for a full solution to every single problem, as you are implying is the correct view of things. What then should my actions be in 2020? Should I fight on in the hope for partial solutions and partial mitigations? Should I give in to despair and not fight at all? Now that I have taken over your view of things, what actions should that view lead to? 82.36.198.177 (talk) 21:18, 22 February 2020 (UTC)
Hmhmhmhmhm...If that is a veiled attempt to ascertain what *I* am doing in 2020, lets just say I know exactly what I will be doing and how that fits in my own agenda but as for you, just prepare for the catastrophe as best you can, try and preserve yourself and that which you value, and remember that if you live long enough(I am fairly young, personally, which is why I see fit to plan for a post climate crisis life) you may find opportunities. Writing off any attempt to save the current order, partial or otherwise, is not the same as giving into despair and doing nothing if you can actually recognize there are other options(as you have failed to do, though you can be forgiven for that as few enjoy pondering upon the disasters of this scale when they can lapse into false hope).Flandres (talk) 21:38, 22 February 2020 (UTC)
In response to your assumptions about me, let me remind you that just because I have not mentioned other options within this thread does not mean I have privately failed to recognize them. Nevertheless I thank you for your answer, as it helps me understand your perspective. 82.36.198.177 (talk) 21:53, 22 February 2020 (UTC)
I'm just going to point out that election interference is bad actually... ☭Comrade GC☭Ministry of Praise 20:05, 22 February 2020 (UTC)
@GrammarCommie Duh, obviously and I can’t see anyone arguing otherwise in this thread. The question is what kind of interference we’re talking about and how to apportion blame. Is this an incident of Putin ratfucking the electoral process or one of Putin specifically trying to get Sanders elected? Furthermore, If one subscribes to the latter view, does this mean we’re seeing an equivalent to Trump more or less directly or seriously soliciting foreign support (as in the calls for hacking Democrats in general and Hillary Clinton in particular during the 2016 election)? As far as I can see, the answer to the two latter questions are no, while the first one is a definite yes (and wholly in line with Russian disinformation/FUD strategies applied to several other Western countries as well). Basically, should we mainly see this as a reason to get mad at Sanders or at Putin? I suggest the latter. ScepticWombat (talk) 20:50, 22 February 2020 (UTC)

I can't vote for Bernie now I know that foreign oligarchs want him to win. Now I must vote for the democratic candidate national oligarchs want to win!
Russia interference only matters if a candidate responds to them - Trump did and used information from them in the election campaign, Bernie did neither in 2016 - I don't imagine he will in 2020 either. If it's shadowy foreign money buying ads you're worried about, perhaps the question is why Facebook is allowed to have foreign entities buying political ads. Sanders has already disavowed them, and there's not much else he can actually do while Russia is allowed by Republican legislators to influence the American democratic process. Maybe I'm feeling too much of the Bern, but this does not influence my support for Bernie at all. Minish (talk) 21:04, 22 February 2020 (UTC)

+1 for nuking Bernie by any means necessary. The entire right-wing shithead MAGAverse is visibly erect at the prospect of him securing the nomination. This is not a cunning double bluff on their part. Helena Bonham Carter (talk) 20:58, 22 February 2020 (UTC)

Is there an actual policy position you hate, or do you base your decision solely on your dislike of a section of his supporters? 82.36.198.177 (talk) 21:08, 22 February 2020 (UTC)
"The media can't tell you what to think, but it will tell you what to think about".
Does this just seem like a no brainer for Putins style of interference. Bernie reliably polls well against Trump and we can pretty much say for sure that Trump is their asset. Appearing to support Bernie lets the media paint both Trump and Bernie with the same brush, giving sanders some apparent corruption on his otherwise fairly clean record. It stokes political apathy towards the dems, which seems to be the weapon of choice against moderates.
...The other theory being that Putin wants Sanders, obviously Establishment Dem Mk2: Hillary with added baggage and dementia would be a guaranteed end of Trump, who pretty much ran on a protest vote ticket. Obviously a popular wildcard would be perfect. /s McUrist (talk) 22:16, 22 February 2020 (UTC)
So many predictions being made here and the level of certainty behind these predictions is incredible. American politics are famously unpredictable. Just look at the varying level of support for the candidates in the Dem primaries. See how candidates stay high and then suddenly crash. How others shoot out of nowhere. How polls measuring possible voter intention between Trump and Sanders vacillates over the weeks. Assuming how candidates will do with that level of confidence is silly and predicting Trump will win already is even more preposterous. It's not just defeatists its just self-fulfilling prophecy. America's political state is pretty broken at the moment but presidents do come along from time to time and institute breath taking changes. Nate Silverman (very good at predicting political winners) is openly changing the likely hood of victory every day. ShabiDOO 22:32, 22 February 2020 (UTC)
@Oxyaena, I'm not sure what you think is 'pissy' with regard to my behavior. If it's regarding classism, that's a separate issue. I find discussing class warfare-type issues unproductive and unhelpful. It's going to go right over the heads of most Americans who don't generally see things in terms of class — they probably should but one is not going to win an election in the US based on that. I did not find out about Putin's endorsement until after that anyway, and I doubt that Putin cares at all about Bernie's enormous number of policies anyway: Putin doesn't care about policy but rather about power and money. Bongolian (talk) 23:09, 22 February 2020 (UTC)

Turning Point, now an Irish version[edit]

In following the news about failing in the recent Dáil elections. Fromage's Irish lackey the Irexit's Hermann Kelly, is assisting in creating an Irish version of Turning Point at the National University of Ireland in Galway. This may not sound notable, but it is a Seanad election panel. http://twitter.com/TPointIE/status/1230937180933062657?s=19 Euromec (talk) 11:51, 22 February 2020 (UTC)

The handful of timid conservative voices (who no one stops speaking in Ireland) feel uncomfortable outside their online echo chamber and hearing for the first time in their lives notable dissenting voices. Meanwhile thousands of students are discouraged from (or even silenced over) speaking up about their experiences of sexual assault. I think the latter should be the focus on "free and open speech" on campus in Ireland. Not fake-victims of non-oppression. ShabiDOO 13:14, 22 February 2020 (UTC)
Herman Kelly is one of those dangerous tosspots that confuse freedom of expression with free speech. We don't have free speech in Ireland as that twat understands it. There are laws curbing hate speech and quite rightly too. But ignorant halfwits like Herman and that other dangerous mouth piece, Gemma O'Doherty seem to believe free speech allows them to say hateful things about people and cry fowl when they are banned from corporate platforms for violating the rules they agree to. And as such, in the Gemma O'Doherty example, have an ongoing protest outside Google's offices in Dublin. http://villagemagazine.ie/village-editorial-september-gemma-odoherty-2019/ Cardinal Chang (talk) 18:38, 22 February 2020 (UTC)

Politics in Norway[edit]

You know, FrP leaving Stortinget, SIAN burning the Qua'ran and stuff. If you are wondering about what is going on at Stortinget, just ask.--Alola, my name is Delibirda! (talk) 14:28, 22 February 2020 (UTC)

Do you have any plans to get some buddies together, sail to a British town, and steal a bunch of shit before burning it down? Pizza SLICE.gifChef Moosolini’s Ristorante ItalianoMake a Reservation 14:48, 22 February 2020 (UTC)
Yes. Oxyaena Harass 19:12, 22 February 2020 (UTC)
It's sad to see Norway end up like us. We rednecks in America need to be a better example. And less racist.Jeh2ow Damn son! 22:11, 22 February 2020 (UTC)
Extreme right assholtry is not a uniquely American thing nor did it start in America. Every European country has between 10-20% far right representation in their parliaments. They are loud but mostly ignored and rarely invited to participate in coalition governments. There are a handful of exceptions like currently in Italy. They are terrible embarrassment and make politics extremely toxic. The fact that they have a few seats in parliament and their representatives say stupid shit publicly...provokes the crazies into doing super vile shit publicly (like spray painting swastikas on buildings or burning Korans). The notable difference between the US and Europe is that the US has an extremely high degree of free speech while Europe/Canada/Aust/NZ does not. A high degree of freedom of expression including all political criticism ... yes. Hate speech however can be prosecuted in most countries. And most people overwhelmingly support that level of free speech. You don't have the right to make life a living hell for marginalized people nor provoke hate crimes or other crime. It's not a case of Norwegians copying Americans. It's simply a crazy guy who once in a while does something grotesque despite the fact that they will be prosecuted. It happens so much more often (hate speech) in the US only because it is protected by the constitution. ShabiDOO 22:25, 22 February 2020 (UTC)
Laughs in UK 60% far right parliament. McUrist (talk) 22:33, 22 February 2020 (UTC)
British is its own language, you know. Oxyaena Harass 23:32, 22 February 2020 (UTC)

The odd obsession with bacon (for some reason)[edit]

Even after awhile the bacon fad started people still obsess over bacon and more recently: pickles. Is there something I am not understanding about fads? There is bacon themed clothing and even perfume! Why do people obsess over food items?

I know with 100% certainty that it is an American thing but I am not certain that either bacon or pickles are a fad in other countries. I do know that bacon and pickles were made for centuries because that they were easy to store and produce. --Rationalzombie94 (talk) 00:09, 23 February 2020 (UTC)

Bacon can be a fad, really? I mean it's already a really popular food in many places, giving it a fad seems like a waste. 82.36.198.177 (talk) 00:38, 23 February 2020 (UTC)
It certainly has in the US of A. Cannot say for other countries though. Somehow bacon has been a fad for like 10 years give or take. --Rationalzombie94 (talk) 00:42, 23 February 2020 (UTC)
Ten years is quite long. Maybe American cuisine needs more different things that can compete for attention with bacon. 82.36.198.177 (talk) 01:00, 23 February 2020 (UTC)
It's less of a fad than it used to be. The chief cause of the "craze" is a combination of diet craze changes (1980s: low-fat, 2000s: low-carb) and pork companies successfully hawking bacon as a flavor enhancement to the overcooked blah meat often offered at fast food restaurants in the 1990s (generally Hardees is credited with starting the trend). I think bacon mania started in the 1990s and peaked in the 2010s, but high protein low carb diet woo and people who are like Ron Swanson non-ironically will keep bacon in vogue for a little bit longer, at least. Soundwave106 (talk) 01:57, 23 February 2020 (UTC)
The increasing prevalence in pickles could be due to an increased prevalence of openly transgender women. Spriggina (puhua) (maksut) @ 02:03, 23 February 2020 (UTC)
五花肉 is good though. ikanreed 🐐Bleat at me 03:02, 23 February 2020 (UTC)

New Royalty, or swipe right. Expecation, Pop Idolatry, Whishful Sentiments[edit]

Grimes, who isn't even apparently a person with a name, is pregnant via Elon Musk. Her plan for concerts is to Holograph. I think it's commendable to focus on your pregnancy, and it would be tough to forward your career. Mr. Musk even put out a song, just trying it and it wasn't good, apparently. I used to call Grimes baby-babble. She started using words.

I think Boucher definitely deserves to be engaged in her pregnancy. What's weird is people thinking EDM needs a live version, and the confusion resulting.

Like, cool, she gets to do a hologram show, and that's cool. She also got electrocuted by an earpiece and fought through the show, and that was ok? Electrocution?

This is the American version of royalty. I love engineering, I love songwriting. Elon Musk and Ms Grimes are both good, I don't want to take anything away from them or their enabling of engineering and songwriting. I think they are both inept at both, but that's me also. They are idols in an environment that isn't picky, and I like their pet projects. The idea that sending a hologram off to be a performer while you literally mother a child is actually really cool. I don't think they are smarter or better, I think they have enough money to do it and I think they get an undeserved pass. Hologram Tupa and Jackson from beyond the grave shit is cringey. This is ok, but it's also cringe.Gol Sarnitt (talk) 05:00, 23 February 2020 (UTC)

An aside: I actually think it would be neat if an EDM act actually performed truly live versions (I saw a few in the late 1990s but can't think of anyone who really does this now). A few "indietronica" bands like Hot Chip actually manage to pull off reasonably live indie-EDM dance. It sounds quite a bit different from the studio tracks, but it's personally something I'd rather watch than "just pressing play". But I'm probably in the minority these days... Soundwave106 (talk) 05:31, 23 February 2020 (UTC)

Hahaha, no Joke, I tried a Theremin, I had a friend who was just buying wacky instruments. It was just a fruitless endeavor, I don't think we had a bad time. Gol Sarnitt (talk) ~