User talk:Bongolian

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Attention trolls: Don't bother me here. I am busy impersonating Emil O. W. Kirkegaard on Uncyclopedia.

Ideologically motivated blocking[edit]

I have been faced with multiple unannounced and unexplained blocks based on vague accusations of whitewashing, (providing more detail on the relationship between Catholicism and the Right during the first half of the twentieth century by using recognized historical sources), it seems as though I am being censored for providing info that doesn`t agree with the ideology of many of the editors, but I have consistently remained neutral, provided sources and stayed polite. I had hoped rationalwiki would encourage constructive dialogue not censorship of those who mention that Pope Pius XII supported Claus von Stauffenberg. Is it whitewashing to reject the claim that Pius XII was a Fascist? Or to note the distinction between Integralism and Fascism? Does one need to support the myth pushed by the KGB that Conservative Catholicism=Fascism in order to not be banned for whitewashing? I had read that rationalwiki does not have ideological bans and I also read I could alert sysops so I thought I would do so. JohnLogan (talk) 14:00, 11 January 2020 (UTC)

@JohnLogan Instead of bothering an individual moderator, I suggest you take your issues to the moderator noticeboard. Thanks, Cosmikdebris (talk) 15:40, 11 January 2020 (UTC)

Content Reversal[edit]

Why was my quote at the Anarchism page reversed? The quote by Alan Moore is much more famous than the one from Thomas Hoobe, and is much more direct to the point than his, who is filled with bias since Hoobes is a well-know absolutist with a very outdated view on anarchism, that not only misses the entire point on anarchism but also sees it as a state of "pure chaos", which anarchism isn't. --TheOne (talk) 23:31, 25 January 2020 (UTC)

@TheOne, I've heard of the Hobbes quote, but not the Moore quote. Also, the Hobbes quote had a citation, but the Moore quote did not. You can add the Moore quote with a citation, or if you want the the Hobbes quote removed, you can argue for its removal on the talk page. Bongolian (talk) 23:54, 25 January 2020 (UTC)


I wrote this and it's now finished as a draft: Draft:A New Radical Centrism could you move this to A New Radical Centrism? Job (talk) 20:21, 11 February 2020 (UTC)

@Job Done. Bongolian (talk) 20:48, 11 February 2020 (UTC)

Bug in the Banned template[edit]

There was an errant <div> in the {{Banned}} template that was causing the categories at the bottom of the page to be displayed in large typeface. I got rid of the offending tag in the template, and it seems to be fine now. Cosmikdebris (talk) 03:44, 17 February 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for fixing it! Bongolian (talk) 04:08, 17 February 2020 (UTC)


Thank you for your edits on Conflict of interest! It's definitely an improvement. Luna Rose I'm shy; say hi 15:23, 17 February 2020 (UTC)

You're welcome, @QuietLuna. I appreciate your edits on RW! Bongolian (talk) 17:01, 17 February 2020 (UTC)

My apologies[edit]

I uh am sorry for my rudeness earlier, I was irritable and that was uncalled for, but Bernie being a Russian asset.... come on, seriously? β€” Oxyaena Harass 23:25, 22 February 2020 (UTC)

There's really no need to apologize for anything, @Oxyaena. I respect that you have different opinions than I do, I really do. With regard to Bernie, there's really no doubt that he at least falls into the unwitting asset category. Both the Mueller Report and the current State Department have confirmed this, so you'd have to be in denial about both of them to think otherwise. If nothing else, the support likely comes from bots, trolls, and disinformation originating from Russia. Unwitting assets are a normal part of tradecraft (see Agent handling Β§ Agents, spotting, and recruitmentWikipedia's W.svg), and there's a recently-revealed case of a large-scale CIA espionage operation, which employed people who did not know that they were employed by a CIA front company, and consequently put some of the employees' lives in danger without their knowledge.[1] Bongolian (talk) 23:47, 22 February 2020 (UTC)
I mean, you have to look at the pros and cons here. Bernie's pros far outweigh his cons imo, the one thing I really take him to task for is the fact he's a zionist. β€” Oxyaena Harass 12:33, 23 February 2020 (UTC)
For me, there is no pro that is going to outweigh Bernie's being a Russian asset. Bernie's so-called pros are paper-thin in the form of policies, not actions anyway. Bongolian (talk) 19:32, 23 February 2020 (UTC)


At least, as privately as you can manage on a wiki. Fuck you. That saloon bar shit is seriously dishonest.

The context of your deep up your rectum googling makes it crystal goddamn clear that term was not being used synonymously with being gay, nor as a slur.

The fact that you're going to such lengths to smear someone dishonestly like this just fills me with contempt.

Where's your integrity? Why would you waste so much time and effort on something where you're so totally in the wrong? It's a shitty thing to do. A real goddamn shitty thing to do. I know we're arguing on the internet and all, but at some level, I'm deeply disappointed how far you'll go. It's awful. And it reflects badly on your character. ikanreed 🐐Bleat at me 20:28, 3 March 2020 (UTC)

I didn't call Oxy a homophobe. I said that "it's homophobic", meaning the term 'buttchug'. I'm fully aware that making a single bigoted remark does not make one a bigot. I said that Oxy used an ad hominem on Buttigieg: that much is true. I've seen these types of 'butt' references to Buttigieg on Nazi Twitter, so it's something that they are exploiting, very likely as homophobia. I actually came across that University of Tennessee story back in May when I was writing the fraternity page (I did not use it on the page though), so it wasn't something new to me. Perhaps we can both accept that 'buttchug' can sometimes be homophobic depending on intentions?
You called me dumb in your initial response, and this was not the first time you've done this. I can accept when I'm wrong, but saying things like that doesn't help discourse. Bongolian (talk) 20:49, 3 March 2020 (UTC)
It was pretty goddamn dumb to post. ikanreed 🐐Bleat at me 21:02, 3 March 2020 (UTC)
Imo, making fun of a person for having "butt" in the name is a 6 year old playground tease. I wouldn't go far to say it's anything inherently homophobic. --It's-a me, Lgm sigpic.png LeftyGreenMario!(Mod) 21:08, 3 March 2020 (UTC)
That's true. I'd never do it myself, except inasmuch as I say things like "butt" and "klobb" out of laziness. ikanreed 🐐Bleat at me 21:12, 3 March 2020 (UTC)
If I had to make fun of Buttigieg, I'd call him "the butt man", but again, not out of malice, just to amuse myself. Kinda like changing words in movie/book/video game titles to "ass" and see which results make me laugh (and they usually do because I'm like 9 years old sometimes). --It's-a me, Lgm sigpic.png LeftyGreenMario!(Mod) 21:20, 3 March 2020 (UTC)

Libertarian paradise[edit]

Guess you didn't like that edit? (Help, help, I'm being oppressed by statists! Come quickly! Come see the violence inherent in the system!) - (talk) 23:30, 8 March 2020 (UTC)

Snark is like table salt. A little bit adds flavor and depth but too much ruins everything. Pizza SLICE.gifChef Moosolini’s Ristorante ItalianoMake a Reservation 00:31, 9 March 2020 (UTC)

Civility Policy[edit]

I admit, I am kind of coming around to the idea of a more formalized civility policy. What would you have in mind? RoninMacbeth (talk) 18:27, 11 March 2020 (UTC)

Considering the amount of abuse I get thrown my way I`m cautiously in favor of it, but formulate it in such a way that does not allow for tone trolling, sealioning, or general bad faith argumentation. β€” Oxyaena Harass 18:31, 11 March 2020 (UTC)
I actually don't have anything very specific in mind. Before the original fracas, I was originally thinking of a mainspace page on civility, but then I started wondering missional-or-not and shelved the idea. We could start such a page, which might be less controversial than an immediate policy change, and then try to push policy towards agreement with such a page. Bongolian (talk) 18:35, 11 March 2020 (UTC)
I attempted one, then that got shot down, iirc. --It's-a me, Lgm sigpic.png LeftyGreenMario!(Mod) 19:35, 11 March 2020 (UTC)
@LeftyGreenMario I think you brought up the idea of a direct policy change within the Saloon. What do you think of my idea of mainspace page first, then trying to push for (modest) policy changes? Bongolian (talk) 19:38, 11 March 2020 (UTC)

Hi, JDSalamander here[edit]

I did not mean to appear as a troll, just adding some humour to articles. I was also the one who updated the Alex Jones page. I live in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. I appreciate the message you're sending, and I hate misinformation and conspiracy theories as much as y'all do.

@JDSalamander That's fine. It just seemed like snark in the wrong places to me. Keep at it and you might get into the swing of things around here. Bongolian (talk) 17:57, 13 March 2020 (UTC)

2020 election and voter suppression[edit]

What do you mean by "Can you come up with a better citation if you're going to make that voter suppression claim?". There's at least three sources in WIGO elections and more can be easily found in a five minutes search in Google. Or are you denying there was voter supression? I mean the democratic establishment made no ilusions about it's opposition to Bernie Sanders and what can you call the Dems allowing primaries to go on (and threatening to punish states that postponed primaries) during a pandemic other than voter suppression? It's just what it is. The fact that polling status were massively reduced and that people had to wait hours and hours to vote is nothing more than voter suppression, to try to claim otherwise is just delusion.Tuxer (talk) 23:08, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

I'm not trying to deny anything. I just didn't think that was a very good citation ([2]). If you have a news article rather than a blog post, it would be an improvement. Bongolian (talk) 00:07, 23 March 2020 (UTC)
Yeah, sorry for coming off a bit agressive. I will add the sources later.Tuxer (talk) 01:57, 23 March 2020 (UTC)
No problem. Bongolian (talk) 02:49, 23 March 2020 (UTC)

Article on Hofstedter book[edit]

I have written about 3,000 words on Draft:Anti-intellectualism in American Life. It is essentially an outline of the author's introductory chapters. I am not sure how to properly format this kind of article. The general nature of anti-intellectualism, at least the variety most familiar in America, might be instructive to some of our readers. Perhaps you could take a look at it on one of these lonely days ahead. Criticism would be appreciated.Ariel31459 (talk) 03:50, 28 March 2020 (UTC)

It's probably fine content-wise, so I'll move it into mainspace and begin editing. Bongolian (talk) 04:12, 28 March 2020 (UTC)
@Ariel31459 This is a good draft and is ready for mainspace. I'll be happy to review and refine. Cosmikdebris (talk) 04:15, 28 March 2020 (UTC)
Good deal. Thanks to both of you.Ariel31459 (talk) 04:29, 28 March 2020 (UTC)
@Cosmikdebris I'm taking a break from editing for at least a couple hours if you want to continue. Bongolian (talk) 05:16, 28 March 2020 (UTC)
@Cosmikdebris Yes. All help is appreciated, refining the article. Also, we still need to add more on the topic of evangelism. At the moment I am still reading. Ariel31459 (talk) 20:36, 29 March 2020 (UTC)

About that block[edit]

I think the BoN's comments were meant to be sarcastic, claiming this is what goes through the minds of prominent conservatives like Rupert Murdoch. Did you by chances look at the last sentence in the post, or the BoN's talk page(which they just made) or perhaps their user history(they tend to make sarcastic statements like this)? Was the block really called for? A verbal warning might have sufficed.-Flandres (talk) 19:45, 31 March 2020 (UTC)

Draft redirects[edit]

Thanks for removing the redirect from draft of Logan Robertson. There is also a redirect from draft:Joseph Sciambra which redirects to the main page. Is removing draft redirects something I can do in future? Debunky (talk) 22:46, 31 March 2020 (UTC)

I deleted the redirect from the draft version of Joseph Sciambra. Cosmikdebris (talk) 23:37, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
@Debunky Yes, Sysops like yourself have the power to delete pages. Also, at the time that one moves a page to mainspace, one has the option of not creating a redirect. Bongolian (talk) 01:10, 1 April 2020 (UTC)
Ah, thanks I didn't see that feature. I will not include redirects in future. Debunky (talk) 01:12, 1 April 2020 (UTC)

Article deleted for no reason?[edit]


The article you worked on has been deleted randomly with no vote to deletion, see (redacted) .

Problematically, the editor who created the page has also been banned on dubious allegations of being a banned editor (no evidence though was presented for this.) I suggest monitoring EK's erratic behaviour and abuse of moderation. Tephra (talk) 22:02, 1 April 2020 (UTC)

Please restore the page for at least a vote to delete discussion. The claim by EK the article "doxxed" (redacted) is also dubious. Tephra (talk) 22:05, 1 April 2020 (UTC)
EK is retracting my edits for no valid reason. There's no dox:
Ek's dubious argument is (-) article doxed him, but but he identifies his Wikipedia account with his real name on various Wikipedia related blogs and forums:

(comment removed)

I don't use discord, the deletion was "per discord". There is no doxing here. Perhaps a mistake has been made. John66 (talk) 00:11, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
I'm not on Discord either. @EK, Can you still justify the page deletion in light of the above quotation & link? Of the moderators only @LeftyGreenMario and @RWRW are acknowledged to be on Discord, though RWRW seems to be asleep at the wheel of late. Bongolian (talk) 00:32, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
Asleep at the wheel? I was just resting my eyes officer!
There's been no discussion about it on Discord that I've seen. And certainly none that I've been a part of. --RWRW (talk) 01:00, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
there is relevant disscussion on the Treehouse and wp chat as I no longer use the public ratwiki discord. EK (talk) 01:13, 2 April 2020 (UTC)

β”Œβ”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”˜Please move all further discussion of this topic to here: RationalWiki talk:All things in moderation#deleted article Bongolian (talk) 01:15, 2 April 2020 (UTC)

I'm on Discord, but I didn't see any rationaliwki related discussion on our server (or at least in the appropriate channels) or in the cobb server (which is a server we link to alongside the official server if I recall correctly). --It's-a me, Lgm sigpic.png LeftyGreenMario!(Mod) 01:20, 2 April 2020 (UTC)


Hi, sorry for the overdramatism, please could I have some help @ Draft:Politic-Ed???--Barca119 (talk) 18:21, 6 April 2020 (UTC)

I don't know anything about the site. You could ask for help in Saloon to see if anyone is familiar with it or interested in it. Bongolian (talk) 18:23, 6 April 2020 (UTC)
I was more asking about what needs verifying with references, so that the draft can become an article. Is there anything that does need verifying in your eyes, or can I move it to being an article? Thanks :) --Barca119 (talk) 18:28, 6 April 2020 (UTC)
It looks like you had reasonable references before you erased it. The problem was probably that you hadn't written enough about the site to justify it as a mainspace article. We like to keep stubs out of mainspace. Bongolian (talk) 18:41, 6 April 2020 (UTC)
Ok thanks, I'll add some more detail to the article as the night progresses! Thank you for your help!!! :) --Barca119 (talk) 18:43, 6 April 2020 (UTC)


Hey, I don't like to be confrontational but I find some of your links added to pages to sometimes be excessive? For example, on Logan Robertson you linked this significant area of a quote to the Kinder, KΓΌche, Kirche page as follows: "I sure wouldn't be voting for that new Labour lady… she needs to shut up and go home and get in the kitchen where women belong and bake a cake for her boyfriend." I just think this takes away from the legibility of the article, and when you link a quote like that it makes the reader think it is an external link to him saying the quote. You also linked New Zealand multiple times on the page when once would've been ok. Wikipedia article often don't link to the nationality/country of a person at all. I removed it for that reason. I know that RW does promote the linking to other pages, and I do appreciate the humour in your links, but sometimes I think it does promote too much confusion about what exactly a person is clicking on when it is too ambiguous. Should you disagree, feel free to clarify, but I did want to make this point heard. Thanks :) --Debunky (talk) 11:33, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

Hi @Debunky! I think the use of Kinder, KΓΌche, Kirche highly appropriate in that case. It has been used elsewhere in RW in similar such cases, e.g. "a woman's place is in the home and subservient to her husband" on page Jesus Is Savior, "traditional gender roles" on Roy Masters, and "1950s gender roles" on Tucker Carlson. Virtually no one is going to say "Kinder, KΓΌche, Kirche" outright anymore, so it's basically a shorthand for forms of antifeminism that dictate rigid gender roles. When you tell a woman to shut up, go home and bake for her male significant other, that's certainly hitting the mark of what Kinder, KΓΌche, Kirche was about.
As for the multiple links to New Zealand on a single page, I actually don't remember doing that, and I have generally removed multiple repeated links from a single page, so you're fine removing those. Bongolian (talk) 17:27, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

Madder root[edit]

Could you sort out the redirects - it seems to be a 3-4 stage process to get to the right section. (I have a passing interest in dyes and colours, hence the checking.) Anna Livia (talk) 10:27, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

@Anna Livia, I think I fixed it. Let me know. Bongolian (talk) 17:16, 16 April 2020 (UTC)
Not quite - typing in 'Madder root' goes to 'List of herbs and spices' & then to the right place. Would do it myself if it was 'simple'. Anna Livia (talk) 18:02, 16 April 2020 (UTC)
I don't think I understand the problem then. Bongolian (talk) 18:19, 16 April 2020 (UTC)


Do you think she'll stay gone?

I acted too hastily. I wanted the fighting to stop. I...I regret bringing that coop case forward. I hope she does come back. RoninMacbeth (talk) 17:26, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

I cannot speak for her. She's has a retired sign on her homepage since December, but it hasn't stopped her from editing. It's probably best that you tell her directly. LGM and I have tried to push for more civility, to date there has not seemed to be much interest in changing the code of conduct. The civility page that I started could possibly serve as a template if you think it's time for a change. Bongolian (talk) 17:33, 16 April 2020 (UTC)
Thanks, Ronin. To be honest I act too hastily, but the recent Biden affair almost made me quit this wiki for real this time. I was legitimately disgusted. β€” Oxyaena Harass 05:24, 9 May 2020 (UTC)


did you rewrite The Crow's section? That was the compromise. You removed the reference to the Tom King call, why? That's why I reverted it. β€” Oxyaena Harass 05:23, 9 May 2020 (UTC)

You mean Larry King? I thought it was flimsy, But I'll add add back the call tomorrow. It's mentioned in the WaPo story that I cited after all. Bongolian (talk) 07:37, 9 May 2020 (UTC)
Yeah, Larry, whatever. I just take issue with the fact you wholesale reverted it, and there wasn't a consensus that WaPo was okay. β€” Oxyaena Harass 07:43, 9 May 2020 (UTC)

Why was my Gish Gallop example removed?[edit]

I thought the Library of Hate seemed like a great example of a race realist gish gallop. Is it because it's from a Twitter account? Because the fact that someone bothered to write up all of those """facts""" obviously thought it would be of worth to the alt-right. --GekoNeko (talk) 14:45, 9 May 2020 (UTC)

@GekoNeko That was @Oxyaena who did that: you'd have to ask her. A better place to ask about such things is usually on the relevant talk page (Talk:Gish Gallop). Bongolian (talk) 15:55, 9 May 2020 (UTC)

Mr Pence[edit]

You have been caught moonlighting as an editor of a blasphemous but obscure wiki in some backwater of the internet. You are hereby under arrest. β€” Oxyaena Harass 10:42, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

You apparently neglected to read the message at the top of this page. Thank you for feeding the troll. Bongolian (talk) 16:15, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

To Do List New Articles sections[edit]

So, after closing the votes for the Jeffrey Epstein suggestion & the Dakota Access Pipeline suggestion, I saw that the Jeffrey Epstein one is still only a section from the Clinton Body Count page. And I have no idea whether I should open that vote poll again and move it back to the "Most Wanted Articles" section or not since I don't know if it will mess up the other votes in that section. Beyond Reality (talk) 13:47, 26 May 2020 (UTC)

@Beyond Reality, If you think you have enough missional material to make a separate article for Epstein that is broader than the existing section, go ahead and do it, either in draftspace or mainspace. Unless there are many down-votes votes in the To Do list, you shouldn't take it as an absolute. Bongolian (talk) 16:59, 26 May 2020 (UTC)


You blocked that sock of Ken’s but did we even reach a consensus on his block? Last I recall it was 10 to 14 spilt and there was no real resolution. AceModerator 00:52, 29 May 2020 (UTC)

Ken's being an abusive nuisance with multiple socks popping up subsequent to his coop case. If there's no agreement to ban, then he won't need the socks. Bongolian (talk) 01:12, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
Accounts according to policy should get blocked if there's ban evasion taking place. However I banned the user for only a few days while also putting them in the vandal bin to see what they do assuming they wait out the block duration. --It's-a me, Lgm sigpic.png LeftyGreenMario!(Mod) 01:18, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
I mean, the fact that Ken wastes his socks on pursuing petty feuds rather than making a clear argument for why we should keep him around is... quite telling actually. ☭Comrade GC☭Ministry of Praise 01:49, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
I’m not overly concerned. Just wondering where we wound up given it doesn’t seem a conclusion was reached. AceModerator 02:17, 29 May 2020 (UTC)


Hey Bongolian, I was wondering why you deleted my redirect? Jejasas258 (talk) 07:50, 31 May 2020 (UTC)

It didn't seem necessary. Bongolian (talk) 08:21, 31 May 2020 (UTC)